Evolve - radio is using nRF24L01

I ride a pair of Original Carving trucks that are spring loaded on one of my long boards and I love them. You just have to adjust the type of spring, heavier verses lighter tensioned to your weight. They carve tighter and pump better than anything else I have ridden and are super stable. Sorry I am off topic from the remote.

 

I really don't understand how you people can go over this major safety problem of this product. Maybe you haven't got injured yet. Unfortunately, I am recovering from a serious injury I got while riding this piece of crap.

Don't get me wrong, When it works, I enjoy it very much, but now, I don;t know if I'll recover also from confidence point of view.

This product is actually a test product which was put on the market for mice like us to test, but not collect our complains.
Because I live in Romania, where Evolve does not have dealers, Evolve asks me to send the board and support the cost for that in order for them to investigate my problem???? What???? The board is exactly 24 months old now.

I have experienced cutoffs in the past, but they became very frequent, and at some point the board missed the link, while I was braking because was approaching obstacles, board did not answered, and then suddenly, it locked the wheels while cornering, and I got my shoulder dislocated at the impact with another obstacle. It could have been worse.

 

Vctvlad – I am sorry you are injured and I hope you heal both physically and mentally. That being said I have years of boarding under my belt and many injuries that have caused issues for me. I credit my second grade PE teacher for instruction on how to roll out of a fall for not having more injuries. My last big one was a complete ulna/radius break because I botched the landing back into a pipe after too much air. I was cranking Rage against the Machine at the time and was too aggressive for the situation. Do I blame the music for my injury, do I blame the board, do I blame the ramp? No I took the risk and reaped the pain. A sport like skating is a risky sport. Add powerful motors to the thing and you only raise the risk. If you are serious about getting back on the board I would recommend stop blaming the board. Work with what you have. Know your limitations and the board’s limitation and realize we are all mice in this experiment of life whether we ride a board or not. Wishing you a speedy recovery.

 

hello xrayturner, I appreciate your educational answer, I am sure that you are well intended.

I want you to think about a vehicle. We all know (here I make an assumption even though is not my natural way of thinking) that the basic vehicle functions are steer, brake, accelerate. The vehicle can go 250km/h max proven.
Now I want you to imagine you buy this vehicle and you spend a little fortune on it.
You get it out or garage, and put it on a mountain curvy road, let's take the Stelvio pass in Italy.
You are rolling 60km/h to stay in the comfort zone and in the safe zone as well based on the basic functions that the vehicle offers by concept.
In the next curve, the steering locks, or does not answer anymore( hypothetically speaking, your new car has SteerByWire technology), therefore you end up jumping off the cliff with your new relatively expensive car.

How do you see it from this position? That you were too extreme to get your car on the road, or that the fcking manufacturer tested that new fancy steering on you directly? Who is to blame for that, you?

if your answer is "Yes, I took the risk"

then don't bother reading further.

else

go on...

I understand perfectly your point, and yes, if you are a grown man, you understand that you tried a new trick without training yourself into performing it gradually, therefore, you accept the consequences as being the result of your and only your actions which only you could have controlled.

If I write a piece of software, and put it in a blender, and sell it to you, and you die because that piece of software spinned the motor too high RPM and you could not stop it and the blender eventually destroyed itself throwing a blade that cuts your jugular, then you did not had full control over that piece of equipment, I had control over it myself through that lill buggy piece of SW that I put in that product.
Do you see my point?

I also got a lot of injuries while biking, snowboarding, paintballing, footballing, but I never complained on the piece of equipment for my lack of talent, and i think that you don't understand the basic concept of manufacturing a product that is aimed to fulfill it's original design idea.

To emphasize even more, I haven't complained that I fell off a functional product and I dislocated my shoulder, but that the product behaved in a different way that I was told it will when I bought it, get my point?

If you reached this line, thank you for patience, and anytime open for argument if there is logic behind...cheers

Sorry if I sound too harsh, it is not my intention, I am a very friendly guy, but I cannot be calm (in fact I act very calm, I just have a slightly higher BPM while typing) when manufacturer knows that has an issue on the sold products and gives a **** about that.
You cannot charge 1700GBP for a buggy product and give a s**t about customer complaints. I don't know how 1700 GBP sounds for you, maybe you are wealthier, but for me it sounds a lot for what this Carbon GT delivers.
For me it is a bag of money only considering it flawless....


P.S. thank you for the wishes.

 

Vctvlad – I get what you are saying I really do. BTW I re-read my post just now and it sounded harsh and I am sorry for that. I am not trying to belittle you at all. I suppose I just look at it differently. To me eboarding is still in its beginning stages. I just don’t see it as being mature enough to compare too much else. Because of this every time I get on the board I realize something might go wrong and I do everything I can to make sure when something does go wrong I am as prepared as I can be. Even with this philosophy I have injured myself on this board. I dislocated my thumb on a nasty fall because I hit the trigger on the R1 coming up out of a crotched positions. After that I purchased the trigger guard. To me there just isn’t a perfect board out there; they all have some short comings. I believe the evolve boards are some of the best on the market if not the best. The hefty price tag delivers a top notch board and as their name implies with each new board the evolution continues. An example of this is the R1 verses the R2 remote. With the R1 you could actually through yourself off the board if you lose your connection to the board and start shifting down. Remote and board sync up and you are thrown into reverse. The R2 won’t do that and for that reason alone I love that new remote. I knew this could happen on the R1 so I never touched anything on the remote until it re-synced and thus never had a problem. When I started skating boards had clay or metal wheels. You hit a small rock and the board stopped. When urethane hit the market it was awesome. We also never or rarely ever wore helmets or other protective gear. Now I always wear a helmet. When my nieces and nephews ask me to skate with them and teach them tricks the first thing I have them do is learn how to stop. Whether it is dragging a foot, dragging the tail, sliding sideways or just rolling into something like grass I try to teach them “have an escape plan”. I suppose it is defensive skating in a way. So I guess what I am saying is we are going to have to agree to disagree. I think evolve makes a great product, an inherently dangerous product and it is up to us to do whatever we can to stay as safe as we can. Even then things happen. Whatever you end up doing I wish you a speedy recovery and a good future. Take Care.

 

As said many times before they need to get off this NRF24L01 chip set - there are poor quality versions of this chip in circulation and it still seems after all this time that more Evolve Riders have problems with their radio link than any other brand, again if it was bluetooth we could upgrade the firmware for the board (and remote) in the field using apps on our phones like you can do with other popular brands. I also ride an Acton S2 - has never dropped the link once, and is bluetooth (app talks to the board). The R2 may be a bit better but still reports of it locking the brakes and other weirdness. I will not even consider another Evolve board until they completely change their radio link, not just release a remote with new features and shape.

 

Julian46 – can you please post the link to where you have read that the R2 is “locking the brakes” . I do know the R1 had problems with disconnects and related to that throwing the board into reverse but not with the R2. If you are going to say the R2 is locking brakes please be more specific and include your source. Thanks

 

Of course - see below - FB Evolve Skateboard Owners Group - recent post....

And to be specific no one knows that its the fault of the R2, that's the problem its transient and hard to reproduce on demand - the point I was trying to make is that there are still issues with the radio link with the R2 - which I am not surprised about as its based on the same chipset as the R1 (NRF24L01), could it be the motor controller doing this on its own ? sure it could (not likely) - but as anyone who has experienced this has witnessed first hand (as is the case with me back in 2016 with the R1) what seems to happen is commands get "queued up" then dumped all at once - so that great big brake command you sent and held (mine was a runaway initially) gets acted upon and the board suddenly stops, at first it can feel like the remote is not responding so you hit the brakes harder (then when it finally kicks in it feels like brakes locking up) - this has all been reported many times before, not just by me.

Original URL LINK

 

julian46 – great thanks for the link. I will check the FB link at some point. That makes me feel a little better. I honestly don’t use the brake all that much except at traffic lights and intersection and by then I have slowed to a manageable speed. When the board feels as though there is a disconnect and a dropout has occurred I never press anything. I learned that from the queuing issue on the R1. It doesn’t happen that often for me but it has and that is how I have programed myself to react to a dropout. I was more worried about reverse then braking. Thanks again for the link and I should check the FB group more often although I am not a FB fan so there is that. Skate on and Enjoy!

 

no probs - That's exactly the right way to approach this - if "it doesn't feel right" - leave the remote alone and just ride it out (foot brake or whatever)

I don't think I've ever heard of this happening just on its own (with no input on the remote side, its the buffering of the commands that makes it feel sketchy and can dump you when it finally kicks in)

Still also riding my Bamboo GT - (R1) - and like you just take it easy when a dropout happens

cheers - you too !

 

this time, I managed to jump off the board, but it ended up under the wheels of a passing car on a perpendicular road.

So please, be very cautious with the Evolve products.

This particular time, it lost the link, but I could not stop it by dragging a foot. because It happened in a wrong moment when I could not afford to do that.

R.I.P. Evolve GTC...Never again.

 

You're Not alone....just had shoulder surgery in January for the exact same thing. Wheels locked out of nowhere. WHY IN THE HELL DIDN'T Evolve use Direct Sequence Spread SPektrum? (DSSS: Direct Sequence Spread Spectrum: Spektrum - The Leader in Spread Spectrum Technology)

This is pure negligence on their part. The owe the consumer a reasonable amount of security that they are going to choose the most robust protocol for Remote Control...especially if their is a human being onboard!

 

julian46....Have you made any progress in determining the exact problem here? HAve any EE's stepped up to the plate and dug in more deeply to the problem?

 

Wow! Glad I read up on this board. Just cancelled my CGT order! Not willing to risk life and limb for this.

 

Just checking in - I have not made any progress or found out anything new - In all honesty I have gone to other boards too - I still have the Bamboo GT and still use it - but not as much.... I hear the R2 remote seems better but haven't tried one myself.

 

This is a completely separate issue. When you are riding a pipe....or for that matter a traditional skateboard...you are in control of accelerating and stopping. An E-board is an E-Board for the exact opposite purpose. You can drag your feet, but the design is such that it allows for electronic acceleration and braking. YOU cannot prepare for a ROLL if you have no idea when to anticipate one.

There is no instance where this should have to be considered acceptable by a consumer. It is akin to an automobile manufacture allowing the continued assembly of a vehicle, knowing full-well there is an inherent problem with the braking and throttle management systems. It is negligence on Evolve’s part. The release of an updated remote (the R2) seemed to acknowledge the problem’s persistence amongst users, yet solved nothing as the updated remote itself was plagued with release problems, and the problem exists in the inability of the remote control products implemented (both transceivers in the skateboard and remote that utilize the Nordic Industries nRF24L01+) to reject outside interference, in addition to programming that allows input commands to “buffer” before being implemented (a latency issue that should never have to be contended with on a vehicle with a human occupant).

I understand the risks associated with skateboarding. But those risks are outside of the realm of accidents that are caused by faulty product design and/or technology implementation. As I’ve stated already, the argument would be the same for any manufacturers design implementation that caused physical harm to anyone. This could be trucks, the wheel the deck etc. The problem is pervasive and identifiable.

For instance Toyota was just found negligent for the death of two young girls when a car accelerated out of nowhere, through an intersection and into a traffic pole:

The jury found that Toyota had acted with “reckless disregard,” despite reports of problems with its cars, and as a result was about to begin deliberations on punitive damages when the settlement was announced. Punitive damages can carry far higher awards.

“We are fully convinced that Toyota’s conduct from the time the electronic throttle control system was designed has been shameful,” J. Cole Portis, a lawyer for the plaintiffs, said. “We appreciate that the jury had the courage to let Toyota and the public know that Toyota was reckless.”

This is a thing, and all of the boards need to be recalled and the situation fixed. I can "fix" my choice to act reckless in a pipe or on a racetrack. I can't "fix" a faulty radio design. Again, this is outside of the normal risk that should be assumed by the consumer.

 

RaceToRed – Agree to disagree. I feel differently then you. I don’t compare a skateboard e or otherwise to a car, a motorcycle or really any other mode of transportation. Again with the E-Boarding industry where it is today there are many, many improvements that need to be made. That being said I apparently approach riding differently than you do. I have had too many people pull out in front of me on both e and non e-boards that I just keep my head on a swivel and I try to be ready to stop however I can. I have enough injuries in my past that I now try to avoid recovery time. I am sure there are more in my future but if you want to go full bore, petal to the metal on tech that is relatively new and depend on it stopping on a dime 100% of the time I recommend a body air bag suit worn by downhill skiers. No one is forcing anyone to buy an Evolve board but if you do Enjoy and Skate On!

 

I think you are missing the point. If someone pulls out in front of you, and you are unable to avoid them due to your inability to ride, or the fact that it happens too fast for you to react...that is an accident that happened at no FAULT of Evolve's design. However, if you are riding your Evolve skateboard down an empty street, with no one else on it, and that skateboard determines on IT'S own to lock up it's wheels, or accelerate out of nowhere, how can this POSSIBLY be rider error? Remember, to even have the chance of avoiding an accident, you must perceive it's threat. In the USA we have a law governing the "warranty of implied merchantability" that states the manufacturer has a right to guarantee a product will work when used for it's intended purposes. There are other forum topics here that I have looked at the show that the particular RF unit used in the transceiver is 1) Not the most robust at rejecting interference, and in fact highly susceptible to outside 2.4ghz consumer grade interference from Bluetooth devices etc. 2) programmed in such a way that allows for the "buffering" of commands that are input by the rider, and if the transceiver unit on the motor-controller senses interference it suspends command input, until it verifies the command, and then implements it. This causes a delayed braking and accelerating response that is DANGEROUS and INHERENT to all of their boards. Go on to youtube and watch guy after guy explain the problem. This has been demonstrated time and again and is therefore not an ACCIDENT. Furthermore, there were more robust products available to Evolve at the time of the design of their remote control components. Technology such as Direct Sequence Spread Spectrum and Frequency Hopping Spread Spectrum, have been around for years in the remote control aircraft and car business for years. You can have hundreds of vehicles flying around and not an ounce of interference using these products. I've been flying RC planes on DSSS for years. This was Evolve's negligence, and they owed it to us the consumers to make sure they were using the technology that insured the board would operate as intended.

I am 45, I've been riding skateboards since 1984. I know how to fall too brother. I compare this to a car, a scooter, a motorcycle, a train, an airplane...anything that relies on components for non-human-powered transportation. So much different than a skateboard that I jumped on in a pipe or skatepark.

 

I am not missing the point, I just don’t agree with you. I started the last comment with just that “agree to disagree”. I ended it with “no one is forcing anyone to buy an Evolve board”. I am not certain of your motive but the way you sound I wouldn’t be surprised if you brought some type of suit against Evolve. Again I get what you are saying but I don’t agree with your analysis. Julian46, the originator of this thread actually provided some really good insight to the issue(s) and I truly appreciated his comments. The only reason I even commented today was because you were replying to one of my previous comments. My thoughts on this subject are in my prior posts to this thread other than that this seems played out. I wish you the best, take care.

 

I decided to release some of the information I gathered while decoding the protocol.
It took me 1 evening to hack the connection, decode the protocol and program a face-palming device on an Arduino+nRF24+.
Now that the new GTR has a new protocol / uses bluetooth and I ordered a G4X I see no-longer see a problem posting the old V2 protocol. haha

Evolve Bamboo GT, Wheels Locked, Crash....